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<p>Your citation that these are tools is good. <br>
</p>
<p>Yet you'll pull Firefox on LinuxMint from my cold dead hands. I
have no trouble with it. I use Thunderbird, which is ugly, but I
don't do html mail for security reasons. I do have issue with
LinuxMint utilities, but have replaced them. The Ubuntu foundation
is fine. But this is for me. Your apps work for <i>you</i>. I
have a garage full of tools that are plainly ugly, but some have
decided karma, and some have been used by many hands before me and
still live, and want to work. When I do auto/truck restorations,
they're there, culled from so many tools that were single-use
(looking at you, Harbor Freight). <br>
</p>
<p>The Mac sits, pretty, unused. The BSD underneath has lots of nice
tools. I like the Darwin branch that is the fundamental of macOS.
This said, the ecosystem tends to leave me cold. On some days, I'm
the <i>only one</i> in a coffee shop with a black laptop--
they're all Macs. I used to bring one. No more.<br>
</p>
<p>When I use docker, kube, I put them on Ubunto or CentOS....
occasionally real SUSE. I code and compile on a host that has 288
Xeon threads, and with the right toggles, is lightning fast. This
said, I'm not and don't want to be a coder, rather I orchestrate.
There's not a single instance of Darwin/macOS in my NOC. Apple
abandoned that market. They abandoned the server market. End-user
tools- they do very well, indeed exceedingly well. Apple support
in lieu of Apple Cares is a wall 200' high. I cannot climb over
it. <br>
</p>
<p>Tom</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/20/18 3:59 PM, Swapnil “Swap”
Bhartiya wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:368C79DF-A6F1-4AB7-B7F6-4EB1C0C00418@gmail.com">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Some very valid points. I was a Linux purist from 2004 till 2013 when I moved to US from Europe. I needed a new machine with HiDPI as I was going to invest over $3K on the machine. MacBooks were the only devices. I talked to Greg KH and installed Linux on my $3000+ MacBook Pro. It lasted 3 months. It crashed and I was traveling for LinuxCon so I resorted to use macOS as I needed a machine. Back them I was not doing films. After using MacOS for a while I realized that being UNIX I can do EVERYTHING that I do on Linux there. I can fire up the terminal natively and manage my servers, I can create LinuxUSBs with dd command, I can download YouTube with youtube-dl. I can rync files. In fact macOS command line was much better than Linux as you can literally copy and paste files between terminals. Then I discovered Home-brews. I was NOT doing any photography or video primarily because Linux was not ready for it and I had made a choice to rather NOT do those things than change platform. I was a PURIST.
But then after using Photoshop I realized how much behind GIMP was. After using Pages and MS Word (I NEVER used Word since 2003). I found how much look and feel and functionality matter. Instead of a PC that looked like Windows 95 I had a beautiful machine that was pleasure to use. I realized life is TOO short to NOT do things you love doing because the platform you choose doesn’t support them.
I was hooked, I continued to use Linux on main machine, but that usage continued to drop as font rendering won’t work, email client will break and so on.
Yes, Apple has it’s own business practices so does Google Microsoft Facebook and EVERY company out there. My ISP - whether it be Comcast/Verison they can be called evil but we have to coz we need services. Dominion electric company has many malpractices but we use their powers. So I don’t really care coz I know EVERY Company does such things. What I do care about is do I get the tools that I need. Period. Appel gives me those tools. Microsoft gives me those tools. Google gives me those tools. Does Linux Mint give me those tools. No. In fact I think Linux Mint is as evil is Mircrosft with the dirty games they play with Firefox browser. Anyone who cares about user-freedom won’t touch Linux Mint.
So, the point is ….we have to use the best tools out there. Philiosophies are all good. But when it comes to getting job done, we can’t comprise with tools.
Swap
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">On Dec 20, 2018, at 3:46 PM, Tom Henderson <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:thenderson@extremelabs.com"><thenderson@extremelabs.com></a> wrote:
Within arms reach are: macOS Mojave, Windows 10, and LinuxMint. My use cases are not your use cases. I'm a rotten photographer (ask Corrigan), and I don't live in video-ville. I don't play games, save running a Windows XP VM to run Duke Nukem and other arcade-ish games.
I code throughout the day, and have written four books on LinuxMint, soon to be seven. I think Linux graphics support is wanting, but my main machine is a Yoga, which has reasonable, barely-passable, touch screen. My opinion of Lenovo has dropped a full two stars from five in a year, but I'm still using one.
They're all cults. I've reviewed operating systems for a living, and each has their special spot, and each of them stinks. I go back to the pre-CP/M days. I'm old. My first 'nix was Systems III, my first GUI was X, then Xenix, then Motif, then remedial SmallTalk, then Mac and Windows, but also DesqView, and other primitive multi-tasking, pre-emptive architectural models including NeXtStep, and a lot of other variations which root to X and SmallTalk. We've come a long way, babee. A long way.
I side with FOSS, philosophically. I like macOS for its intuitiveness. I tolerate Windows. If one can place trust in something, I tend to err on the side of the Linux crew because they have the guts to put their code out for all to see and laugh at, then quickly fix.
I cannot tell you how many times I've pulled Windows users out of the drink. They cough and sputter, and their machines were wiped. If you were a monkey in my circus, you had backups. Otherwise, something ate your lunch (again), boo hoo.
Linux on the desktop can be very useful, but not for the the things you do, Swap. I get that. I would like Macs more if Apple didn't lie like rugs, and have the smugness of a fortune in cash-- mostly in overseas banks. Apple is clearly brilliant, and with that brilliance has come great designs, and also the Newton.
Chromebooks are a different model, one where you trust the cloud. I snort. I understand the cloud, but it's difficult to protect today. I follow a lot of security folks, and the cloud is a mess, and the US Gov (and others) do little to keep from peeping and stealing and the US Gov just really don't care about your data. They pay lots of lip service.
I have ten instances of honeypots running right now. They look like Windows instances and Linux instances. The Windows instances are jacked about once every eight days, no matter their auto-patch level. I have two Linux instances of Ubuntu server that have been running unabated (auto-patched) continuously since their installation in 2015.
Apple has not engendered my trust. Microsoft is the posterchild for whatever makes money at the time. Pecuniary interests aside, the FOSS people, primitive as they can be, have gained my respect and support.
I am NOT a typical user, and I respect respect people's choices. Apple is the best choice for some. Windows if you must, and application-driven decisions are valid. I believe in FOSS platforms for my own reasons, which are not yours.
Tom
On 12/20/18 2:55 PM, Swapnil “Swap” Bhartiya wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Chromebook is winning because Google got it right, the did everything wrong that the desktop community did wrong. Now the desktop people will certainly try to hijack that success. The interesting thing is that even Google doesn’t use the word Linux anywhere near Chrome OS. Why the desktop community is so ‘cultist’ as Alan said. No one wants to get associated with it. That said I don’t see any point in Pixel. At the given point I don’t think Chromebook deserve any price point more than $500. I can get a MacBook for a lesser price and do much more than what Pixel can do.
PS: Be warned Google is KNOWN for killing products. I have burnt my fingers way too many times. I won’t be surprised if Google kills Chrome OS 5 years from now.
Swap
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">On Dec 20, 2018, at 2:50 PM, Dana Blankenhorn <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:danablankenhorn@gmail.com"><danablankenhorn@gmail.com></a> wrote:
Chromebooks are grabbing big hunks of market share. I think we're being too purist here. I prefer not to call victory a defeat.
On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 2:45 PM Swapnil “Swap” Bhartiya <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:arnieswap@gmail.com"><arnieswap@gmail.com></a> wrote:
Yes. But we are talking about Desktop Linux. Linux is a dominant player in modern world, Desktop is an exception. I also don’t like when we use the term Linux for Desktop Linux. Which confuses things. At one hand Linux is the most successful technology to date at the same time the desktop is a massive failure and the reason is simple. Linus and I had a discussion recently and even he admitted that Desktop folks and fragmentation is responsible for its failure. For a long time even Linus didn’t offered packaged version of its own SubSurface to Linux as it was PITA to support Linux. They offered fro macOS and Windows. So let me repeat Linux is dominating the world, but Desktop Linux has failed.
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHFdoFKDuQA&t=23s">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHFdoFKDuQA&t=23s</a>
Swap
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">On Dec 20, 2018, at 2:39 PM, Dana Blankenhorn <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:danablankenhorn@gmail.com"><danablankenhorn@gmail.com></a> wrote:
Androids are based on Linux and Chromebooks are based on Linux and Amazon Fire is based on Linux.
On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 2:38 PM Swapnil “Swap” Bhartiya <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:arnieswap@gmail.com"><arnieswap@gmail.com></a> wrote:
I also use Linux, but only in limited use-cases. As it can’t handle my workload, simple.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">On Dec 20, 2018, at 2:34 PM, Alan Zeichick <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:alan@zeichick.org"><alan@zeichick.org></a> wrote:
IOS. It’s an iPad Mini.
I didn’t say, by the way, that Linux is bad, or that I don’t use it. Because I do use Linux.
However, it is cultish and overhyped, nonetheless, imho.
-A
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">On Dec 20, 2018, at 12:03 PM, Christine Hall <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:christine@fossforce.com"><christine@fossforce.com></a> wrote:
"Tenderly tapped on a tiny tablet"
I wonder what operating system that tiny tablet is using?
Christine Hall
Publisher & Editor
FOSS Force: Keeping tech free
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://fossforce.com">http://fossforce.com</a>
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">On 12/20/18 1:48 PM, Alan Zeichick wrote:
I’ll suggest “cultish” and “overhyped.”
-A
Tenderly tapped on a tiny tablet
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">On Dec 20, 2018, at 11:44 AM, Phil Shapiro <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pshapiro@his.com">pshapiro@his.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pshapiro@his.com"><mailto:pshapiro@his.com></a>> wrote:
Folks, sjvn is in the unenviable position of having to describe Linux, which just keeps getting better and better. Let's all chip in and
buy him a Dictionary of Superlatives. My fear is that we're running out of adjectives to describe Linux. The Earth has a finite supply
of adjectives. We may have to soon start mining asteroids for new adjectives -- just to describe Linux.
Take pity on journalists who cover the open source beat. It's not their fault that Linux keeps getting better. Toss them an adjective
from time to time. They'll be so appreciative if you do.
phil
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</pre>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">--
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