<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">><a name="m_6328245443656436089__MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Good luck, Liam. What they’re asking for is essentially an option… and options aren’t free.</span></a></div><div dir="ltr"><a name="m_6328245443656436089__MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><br></span></a></div><div><a name="m_6328245443656436089__MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Exactly. Your contract rate during the evaluation period should be higher ... and then you have a choice to make.</span></a></div><div><a name="m_6328245443656436089__MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><br></span></a></div><div><a name="m_6328245443656436089__MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">--heusser<br></span></a></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 1:09 PM Liam Kelly via Ipg-smz <<a href="mailto:ipg-smz@netpress.org">ipg-smz@netpress.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">The naive point is the real kicker. I spoke with the editor yesterday and explained my irks. He quickly acquiesced and explained that I could all my clients until a contract was on the table.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">He added that he hadn't thought of it like that. I now suspect he has never been a freelancer...</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">So, hopefully, I'll some lovely news to report within a month. Fingers crossed.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Nov 1, 2019, 17:54 Mitch Wagner <<a href="mailto:mitch@mitchwagner.com" target="_blank">mitch@mitchwagner.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Rich phrases this very well. <div><br></div><div>They're asking for something above and beyond a normal freelance relationship. You'll be taking an immediate hit from loss of that month's income. And you're risking a bigger hit from a permanent loss of external clients. <br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri;min-height:17px"><br></p><p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri;min-height:17px">The immediate hit can be fixed by means of the one client paying you a monthly rate equivalent to what ALL your existing clients pay. However, in today's market, I doubt any editorial client would be willing to do that. </p><p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri;min-height:17px"><br></p><p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri;min-height:17px">And the long-term hit may be unresolvable by any means other than full-time employment. </p><p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri;min-height:17px"><br></p><p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri;min-height:17px">The editor at the crypto/blockchain publication may simply be naive, in which case a conversation might result in a fair agreement. OTOH, he may be a jerk, in which case, well, I guess you're better off knowing that sooner rather than later. :)</p><p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri;min-height:17px"><br></p><p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri;min-height:17px">FWIW, when I was freelancing, whenever I heard, "We can pay you X for this project but if it works out we'll have LOTS of work for you in the future," I always ignored the promise of potential future work, and just looked at whether the individiual project is worthwhile. </p><p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri;min-height:17px"><br></p><p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri;min-height:17px">-- </p><p style="margin:0px;font-family:Calibri;min-height:17px"><a href="http://mitchwagner.com/about/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">Mitch Wagner</a></p></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 9:04 AM Richard Santalesa via Ipg-smz <<a href="mailto:ipg-smz@netpress.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">ipg-smz@netpress.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_5412943725764061966_m_1430089686907611174_m_-4444437325925787132__MailEndCompose" rel="noreferrer"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Good luck, Liam. What they’re asking for is essentially an option… and options aren’t free. Everyone pays for those in every other
course of business and life… so they shouldn’t get it for free, especially since it’s 100% asymmetrical… they putatively get any benefit and you get nothing above and beyond what you would get anyway… a job…. If you got extra cash then they’re be “consideration”
on each side, but otherwise, frankly, it’s not even a contract IMHO.<u></u><u></u></span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">And seconding Joe’s point, there’s no cognizable damages to them from your “breach” and so nothing a court could realistically address…
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(13,13,13)">Richard Santalesa, Esq.* CIPP-US
</span></b><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(54,95,145)">O: (203) 292-0667 M: (917) 345-8675
<br>
</span></b><a href="mailto:rsantalesa@smartedgelawgroup.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">rsantalesa@smartedgelawgroup.com</span></a><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(54,95,145)"><br>
<i>* Admitted in NY, CT & DC</i></span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Garamond,serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">IMPORTANT NOTICE -- ATTORNEY-CLIENT & WORK PRODUCT PRIVILEGES.<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> Ipg-smz [mailto:<a href="mailto:ipg-smz-bounces@netpress.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">ipg-smz-bounces@netpress.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Liam Kelly via Ipg-smz<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 31, 2019 12:22 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:ipg-smz@netpress.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">ipg-smz@netpress.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Liam Kelly<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Ipg-smz] New Job Question: Trial Period to Full Time Staffer<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks all for the suggestions. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Looks like I'll take a firmer stance (Beyonce/Fuck 'em position) despite how attractive the full time position appears.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Writers with teeth certainly eat better than those without.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 16:55 Todd R. Weiss via Ipg-smz <<a href="mailto:ipg-smz@netpress.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">ipg-smz@netpress.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I'm with Joe.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">When they finally hire you and you know it is going to work out for YOU, that's when you can stop writing for others.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Unless these guys want to pay you what you would have made in a month to make up for your lost revenue, why should you lose the revenue?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">If they don't know your work and your writing now, what's a month with no freelance work going to tell them?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">After several layoffs over the years, sometimes one just has to look out for one's self.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">No one else appears to be looking out for any of us nowadays.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Good luck, man.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Todd :)<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black">Todd R. Weiss</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black">Technology Journalist</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black">Contributor:</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black"><a href="http://www.channelfutures.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.ChannelFutures.com</a></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:black"><a href="http://www.ChannelPartnersOnline.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">www.ChannelPartnersOnline.com</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:black"><a href="http://www.eWEEK.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">www.eWEEK.com</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black">Formerly with eWEEK.com and Computerworld.com</span></i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black">TechManTalking</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black">717-806-5932 office<br>
717-413-9630 cell</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black"><a href="mailto:toddrweiss@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(32,98,127)">toddrweiss@gmail.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 11:47 AM Joe Stanganelli via Ipg-smz <<a href="mailto:ipg-smz@netpress.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">ipg-smz@netpress.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">It sounds like you’ve answered your own question. You’re being asked to take enormous risk.<br>
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Absent some form of legal agreement (whether in the form of an official contract, or in the form of some email back and forth indicating such an agreement or that your trial period is expressly contingent on such an agreement), what the trial-period folks don’t
know can’t hurt ‘em.<br>
<br>
And, from a beyond-legal standpoint: If you “violate” this editor’s expectations and continue writing willy-nilly for all your other clients while still engaging in the “trial period”, what’s the worst that they are going to do to you? What are their enumerable
damages? Are they going to sue you or send you a bill? What will their claim be? These are real questions to consider. And if the answer is “They’re not gonna do jackshit”, then that kind of answers the bigger question, now, don’t it?<br>
<br>
The “trial period” nonsense has long been a way for writing clients to screw over freelance writers in varying shapes and forms. t seems like you have little incentive to abide by the requested forbearance.<u></u><u></u></p>
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tl;dr: Fuck ‘em.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">
Ipg-smz <<a href="mailto:ipg-smz-bounces@netpress.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">ipg-smz-bounces@netpress.org</a>> on behalf of Liam Kelly via Ipg-smz <<a href="mailto:ipg-smz@netpress.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">ipg-smz@netpress.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 31, 2019 11:13:37 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:ipg-smz@netpress.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">ipg-smz@netpress.org</a> <<a href="mailto:ipg-smz@netpress.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">ipg-smz@netpress.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Liam Kelly <<a href="mailto:ljkelly1888@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">ljkelly1888@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Ipg-smz] New Job Question: Trial Period to Full Time Staffer</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">It would be tricky. I doubt that I would still have a job there after a month of not working.
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<p class="MsoNormal">I'm just imagining the situation in which I tell the vendors that I can't work there anymore because conflict-of-interest stuff, and then a month later come back looking for my old job.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 16:08 Sharon Fisher via Ipg-smz <<a href="mailto:ipg-smz@netpress.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">ipg-smz@netpress.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Can you compromise? Can you agree to not write for vendors during the trial period? <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 8:59 AM Liam Kelly via Ipg-smz <<a href="mailto:ipg-smz@netpress.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">ipg-smz@netpress.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Ah yes, how could I forget! <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 3:55 PM Mitch Wagner <<a href="mailto:mitch@mitchwagner.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">mitch@mitchwagner.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Seems to me that Beyonce has the best advice here: <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m1EFMoRFvY" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m1EFMoRFvY</a><br clear="all">
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<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;min-height:17px"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">-- <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;min-height:17px"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="http://mitchwagner.com/about/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">Mitch Wagner</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 7:42 AM Joe Stanganelli via Ipg-smz <<a href="mailto:ipg-smz@netpress.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">ipg-smz@netpress.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p>(IAAL, but this is NOT legal advice. This is “If I was in this situation, here’s what I would do.” I am not your lawyer; you are not my client. I owe you no duties and I am not to be trusted.)<br>
<br>
If the editor has merely said “stop writing for these other pubs” but there is not an actual agreement to stop writing for these pubs, fuck ‘em. Say nothing and write for whomever you want. You are still freelance.<br>
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If they are asking you to agree to stop writing for other pubs, tell them to go fuck themselves because that’s not how the world works.<br>
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And, either way, I’d be seriously suspicious of doing any business with these fuckwads moving forward.<br>
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I am in a similar situation with a long-time client whose new-ish editor has expressed the expectation that I tell him if I’m writing for other security sites and that I’m not supposed to. I said nothing because I was so stunned to hear such bullshit. And I
write for whomever I want.<br>
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tl;dr: Fuck these fucks.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Joe<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black"> Ipg-smz <<a href="mailto:ipg-smz-bounces@netpress.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">ipg-smz-bounces@netpress.org</a>>
on behalf of Liam Kelly via Ipg-smz <<a href="mailto:ipg-smz@netpress.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">ipg-smz@netpress.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 31, 2019 10:12:01 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:ipg-smz@netpress.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">ipg-smz@netpress.org</a> <<a href="mailto:ipg-smz@netpress.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">ipg-smz@netpress.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Liam Kelly <<a href="mailto:ljkelly1888@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">ljkelly1888@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Ipg-smz] New Job Question: Trial Period to Full Time Staffer</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi all, <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I've been speaking with a crypto/blockchain publication this week about coming on board to help with their coverage. I will be paid on a per article basis during a one month "trial period," after which, if all goes well, I'll be offered
a full-time position.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Now, I also write copy for some crypto/blockchain companies at current. One company is a startup in the space, whereas the other is a PR firm that represents other crypto companies (among other subjects). <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The editor has stated that I need to stop writing for these companies before beginning the trial period. I understand his reasoning (i.e. conflict of interest), but it seems risky. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">What happens if I cut ties with a chunk of high paying work only to see the full-time staff position get passed on to someone else? I should add that the staff position will likely make up for the loss of marketing work financially, and
I have no problem dropping the latter once I've signed a contract to work full-time for this publication. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">It is indeed tricky, and I thought members of the group would have some good ideas/counter-proposals. What's a win-win for all parties in this situation?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks in advance,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Liam <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.7273px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:left;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline;float:none">Matthew Heusser,</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.7273px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:left;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.7273px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:left;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline;float:none">Managing Director, Excelon Development</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.7273px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:left;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.7273px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:left;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline;float:none"><a href="http://www.xndev.com" target="_blank">http://www.xndev.com</a><br><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.7273px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:left;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline;float:none">Save The Scrum! <a href="http://www.leanpub.com/SaveOurScrum" target="_blank">http://www.leanpub.com/SaveOurScrum</a><br></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>