[Ipg-smz] Medicare

Sat Jun 29 21:50:32 UTC 2019

I appreciate the information. Most of these treatments are for a herniated or decreased volume disk, or stenosis, which is like arthritis, with extra bone growing into the channels the nerves run through, or with the channels getting tighter. My problem is with the actual L4 vertebra, not the disk, and while it was originally described as stenosis, it isn’t really – a piece of the vertebra is missing, eroded for some reason, the right-hand upper corner if you’re looking from above, facing my front. It’s not malformed or growing spikes, it’s just gone. The nerve channels appear normal, but the missing piece lets the vertebra twist, which then impacts the nerves. 

One of the fixes is to remove the disks above and below and fuse the whole mess together, usually using several long screws to ensure that they stick. That has around a 60% chance of success, and is extremely invasive, with a long recovery time. Experimental treatments include injecting foam between the vertebrae or putting metal spacers between the vertebrae like the X-stop (iffy in my case, since they’re not sure why there’s a piece missing, and if it’s because the bone is eroding, the metal spacers might cause further damage). Without (expensive) biopsies and further MRIs, they can’t say why the piece is missing. I was hit by a car when I was a kid, and the piece might have broken off then, and further eroded slowly over time, or it might be some kind of degenerative thing. If the former, a metal spacer might work, if not, it could cause the remaining bone to break apart, which could paralyze me from the waist down. The foam injections seem like my best shot currently, since they’re minimally invasive and would cushion the bone, but they’re relatively new, and probably won’t move out of the experimental classification for 20 years or more. 

Thanks, 

Logan G. Harbaugh
logan at lharba.com
530-243-1346
1547 Magnolia Ave.
Redding, CA 96001
www.lharba.com <http://www.lharba.com/> 

From: Ipg-smz [mailto:ipg-smz-bounces at netpress.org] On Behalf Of Kishore Jethanandani
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2019 11:38 AM
To: ipg-smz at netpress.org
Subject: Re: [Ipg-smz] Medicare

Does this describe your situation? I know the doctor who tweeted that...

 <https://twitter.com/DutchRojas> Dutch Rojas‏ @DutchRojas

FollowingFollowing @DutchRojas

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Coverage = $168,000 spine fusion at 40, another  <https://twitter.com/48> @48, and another  <https://twitter.com/57> @57 for $504,000. Care = One $35,000 Ultrasonic Spine procedure When a procedure is 10+ years old & has worked on thousands, yet does not have its own CPT code, it’s considered experimental by the experts.

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On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 6:18 PM Logan Harbaugh <logan at lharba.com> wrote:

I have a malformed L4 vertebra, which slips sideways and pinches the nerves, causing sciatica. The standard treatment which most insurance will cover is a double discectomy and fusion, which has about a 60% success rate and requires a 9” incision in the belly, with a six-month recovery time. The less-invasive modern treatments are classified by Medicare and the insurance companies as experimental, and are not covered. The nominal cost for those treatments is around $120k, so even with discounts, it’s way outside my ability to pay. At some point, when the pain gets unbearable, I may gamble on one of the alternatives, but for now, I just do my best to live with it. My ‘medical plan’ is to win the lottery. 

Thanks, 

Logan G. Harbaugh
logan at lharba.com
530-243-1346
1547 Magnolia Ave.
Redding, CA 96001
www.lharba.com <http://www.lharba.com/> 

From: Ipg-smz [mailto:ipg-smz-bounces at netpress.org] On Behalf Of Kishore Jethanandani
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2019 5:16 PM
To: ipg-smz at netpress.org
Subject: Re: [Ipg-smz] Medicare

Right, it does not work in every situation. BTW, you might want to check Medibid which provides options within the USA if you are able to pay cash. The cost of cash only treatments is a fraction of the insured treatments and often less than your deductible. 

https://www.medibid.com/ 

There are other cash-only surgery centers in the USA which have competitive offers. Back surgery is high risk in any case and a bad outcome can mean life-long disability. I had severe back pain which was easily cured with yoga.   

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On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 1:18 PM Logan Harbaugh <logan at lharba.com> wrote:

Here too. I’ve considered medical tourism to several countries for the back surgery I need, which can be 20% of the cost here, but the problem is that it’s got about a 20% chance of a less than favorable outcome, and little or no recourse if you go overseas. 

Thanks, 

Logan G. Harbaugh
logan at lharba.com
530-243-1346
1547 Magnolia Ave.
Redding, CA 96001
www.lharba.com <http://www.lharba.com/> 

From: Ipg-smz [mailto:ipg-smz-bounces at netpress.org] On Behalf Of Kishore Jethanandani
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2019 1:10 PM
To: ipg-smz at netpress.org
Subject: Re: [Ipg-smz] Medicare

Well, many Canadians are seeking medical treatment overseas, not so "civilized countries. 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/canadian-medical-tourism_n_5949b405e4b0db570d3778ff  

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On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 11:55 AM Marcel Gagne <marcel at marcelgagne.com> wrote:

I live in Canada. We have universal health care. 15 years ago, I was diagnosed with thyroid cancer during my physical. The doctor felt around my neck and asked,"How long has this been here?" to which I replied, "How long has what been there." A week later, I was getting tested at the hospital with radioactive tracers, followed by more ultrasound tests, followed by a visit to an oncologist who took a biopsy of my neck by inserting a needle in my throat. 

"Hold still, Marcel. This will only take a minute."

For the record, when someone inserts a needle in your neck, you hold still. Perfectly still.

A week or two later, I had the results. Thyroid cancer. We discussed options, and in less than three months since my physical, I was being wheeled in to the operating room to have my thyroid removed by an awesome surgeon. A few weeks after later, I went in to a leaded isolation room for radioactive iodine therapy where I spent three days without human contact while the radioactive iodine killed off any thyroid cancer cells stupid to have around. 

Then, over the course of several years, I had numerous additional tests, blood tests, ultrasounds, and regular visits with oncologists, and more. Two years ago, I was declared officially cancer free after a final round of tests. 

Total bill handed me for all these procedures was $0. Because, in Canada, as in many civilized countries throughout the world, we have universal health care. Don't tell me it's baloney or a myth waiting to be busted. Universal health care is what civilized nations do to take care of their citizens.

-- 
Marcel Gagné
Writer and Free Thinker at Large
Note: This massagee wos nat speel or gramer-checkered.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Christine Hall" <christine at fossforce.com>
To: "ipg-smz" <ipg-smz at netpress.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2019 10:58:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Ipg-smz] Medicare

This is getting political, but that's not true. Social security fell 
apart when the funds kept being used to fund other services.

Christine Hall
Publisher & Editor
FOSS Force: Keeping tech free
http://fossforce.com

On 6/26/19 9:43 AM, Stephen Satchell wrote:
> On 6/25/19 8:04 PM, Kishore Jethanandani wrote:
>> This idea of universal care or Medicare-for-all is such baloney--a myth
>> waiting to be busted.
> 
> One size does NOT fit all.  In some respects, we have baked
> communisism/socialism into government institutions with the idea that
> "if you make more, you can pay more" instead of charging a flat fee
> (tax) for services.  Social Security went further -- it was a Ponzi
> scheme that fell apart when the Baby Boomers came of retirement age on
> one hand, and the raiding of the trust fund by Congress on the other.
> 
> Reminds me of unions and pension funds -- "the money was just sitting
> there."
> 
> Minimum wage?  What a bad idea.  How about "minimum profit
> participation" instead?
> 

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Kishore Jethanandani

Aboutme <https://about.me/kishorejethanandani> 

Futuristlens <http://www.futuristlens.com> 

FuturistLens Magazine on Medium <https://medium.com/@FuturistLens> 

FuturistlensPredictions <https://futuristlenspredictions.wordpress.com/> 

eyeCam <https://wefunder.com/eyecam> 

Telco Transformation <http://www.telcotransformation.com/author.asp?section_id=401&doc_id=726647> 

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Kishore Jethanandani

Aboutme <https://about.me/kishorejethanandani> 

Futuristlens <http://www.futuristlens.com> 

FuturistLens Magazine on Medium <https://medium.com/@FuturistLens> 

FuturistlensPredictions <https://futuristlenspredictions.wordpress.com/> 

eyeCam <https://wefunder.com/eyecam> 

Telco Transformation <http://www.telcotransformation.com/author.asp?section_id=401&doc_id=726647> 

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