[Ipg-smz] New Job Question: Trial Period to Full Time Staffer

Fri Nov 1 17:08:26 UTC 2019

The naive point is the real kicker. I spoke with the editor yesterday and
explained my irks. He quickly acquiesced and explained that I could all my
clients until a contract was on the table.

He added that he hadn't thought of it like that. I now suspect he has never
been a freelancer...

So, hopefully, I'll some lovely news to report within a month. Fingers
crossed.

On Fri, Nov 1, 2019, 17:54 Mitch Wagner <mitch at mitchwagner.com> wrote:

> Rich phrases this very well.
>
> They're asking for something above and beyond a normal freelance
> relationship. You'll be taking an immediate hit from loss of that month's
> income. And you're risking a bigger hit from a permanent loss of external
> clients.
>
>
> The immediate hit can be fixed by means of the one client paying you a
> monthly rate equivalent to what ALL your existing clients pay. However, in
> today's market, I doubt any editorial client would be willing to do that.
>
>
> And the long-term hit may be unresolvable by any means other than
> full-time employment.
>
>
> The editor at the crypto/blockchain publication may simply be naive, in
> which case a conversation might result in a fair agreement. OTOH, he may be
> a jerk, in which case, well, I guess you're better off knowing that sooner
> rather than later. :)
>
>
> FWIW, when I was freelancing, whenever I heard, "We can pay you X for this
> project but if it works out we'll have LOTS of work for you in the future,"
> I always ignored the promise of potential future work, and just looked at
> whether the individiual project is worthwhile.
>
>
> --
>
> Mitch Wagner <http://mitchwagner.com/about/>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 9:04 AM Richard Santalesa via Ipg-smz <
> ipg-smz at netpress.org> wrote:
>
>> Good luck, Liam. What they’re asking for is essentially an option… and
>> options aren’t free. Everyone pays for those in every other course of
>> business and life… so they shouldn’t get it for free, especially since it’s
>> 100% asymmetrical… they putatively get any benefit and you get nothing
>> above and beyond what you would get anyway… a job…. If you got extra cash
>> then they’re be “consideration” on each side, but otherwise, frankly, it’s
>> not even a contract IMHO.
>>
>>
>>
>> And seconding Joe’s point, there’s no cognizable damages to them from
>> your “breach” and so nothing a court could realistically address…
>>
>>
>>
>> *Richard Santalesa, Esq.* CIPP-US *
>>
>>
>> *O: (203) 292-0667 M: (917) 345-8675    *rsantalesa at smartedgelawgroup.com
>> ** Admitted in NY, CT & DC*
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>> *From:* Ipg-smz [mailto:ipg-smz-bounces at netpress.org] *On Behalf Of *Liam
>> Kelly via Ipg-smz
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 31, 2019 12:22 PM
>> *To:* ipg-smz at netpress.org
>> *Cc:* Liam Kelly
>> *Subject:* Re: [Ipg-smz] New Job Question: Trial Period to Full Time
>> Staffer
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks all for the suggestions.
>>
>>
>>
>> Looks like I'll take a firmer stance (Beyonce/Fuck 'em position) despite
>> how attractive the full time position appears.
>>
>>
>>
>> Writers with teeth certainly eat better than those without.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 16:55 Todd R. Weiss via Ipg-smz <
>> ipg-smz at netpress.org> wrote:
>>
>> I'm with Joe.
>>
>> When they finally hire you and you know it is going to work out for YOU,
>> that's when you can stop writing for others.
>>
>> Unless these guys want to pay you what you would have made in a month to
>> make up for your lost revenue, why should you lose the revenue?
>>
>> If they don't know your work and your writing now, what's a month with no
>> freelance work going to tell them?
>>
>> After several layoffs over the years, sometimes one just has to look out
>> for one's self.
>>
>> No one else appears to be looking out for any of us nowadays.
>>
>>
>>
>> Good luck, man.
>>
>>
>>
>> Todd :)
>>
>>
>>
>> Todd R. Weiss
>>
>> Technology Journalist
>>
>>
>>
>> Contributor:
>>
>> www.ChannelFutures.com <http://www.channelfutures.com/>
>>
>> www.ChannelPartnersOnline.com
>>
>> www.eWEEK.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Formerly with eWEEK.com and Computerworld.com*
>>
>> TechManTalking
>>
>> 717-806-5932 office
>> 717-413-9630 cell
>>
>> toddrweiss at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 11:47 AM Joe Stanganelli via Ipg-smz <
>> ipg-smz at netpress.org> wrote:
>>
>> It sounds like you’ve answered your own question. You’re being asked to
>> take enormous risk.
>>
>> Absent some form of legal agreement (whether in the form of an official
>> contract, or in the form of some email back and forth indicating such an
>> agreement or that your trial period is expressly contingent on such an
>> agreement), what the trial-period folks don’t know can’t hurt ‘em.
>>
>> And, from a beyond-legal standpoint: If you “violate” this editor’s
>> expectations and continue writing willy-nilly for all your other clients
>> while still engaging in the “trial period”, what’s the worst that they are
>> going to do to you? What are their enumerable damages? Are they going to
>> sue you or send you a bill? What will their claim be? These are real
>> questions to consider. And if the answer is “They’re not gonna do
>> jackshit”, then that kind of answers the bigger question, now, don’t it?
>>
>> The “trial period” nonsense has long been a way for writing clients to
>> screw over freelance writers in varying shapes and forms. t seems like you
>> have little incentive to abide by the requested forbearance.
>>
>>
>> tl;dr: Fuck ‘em.
>>
>>  *From:* Ipg-smz <ipg-smz-bounces at netpress.org> on behalf of Liam Kelly
>> via Ipg-smz <ipg-smz at netpress.org>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 31, 2019 11:13:37 AM
>> *To:* ipg-smz at netpress.org <ipg-smz at netpress.org>
>> *Cc:* Liam Kelly <ljkelly1888 at gmail.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Ipg-smz] New Job Question: Trial Period to Full Time
>> Staffer
>>
>>
>>
>> It would be tricky. I doubt that I would still have a job there after a
>> month of not working.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm just imagining the situation in which I tell the vendors that I can't
>> work there anymore because conflict-of-interest stuff, and then a month
>> later come back looking for my old job.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 16:08 Sharon Fisher via Ipg-smz <
>> ipg-smz at netpress.org> wrote:
>>
>> Can you compromise? Can you agree to not write for vendors during the
>> trial period?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 8:59 AM Liam Kelly via Ipg-smz <
>> ipg-smz at netpress.org> wrote:
>>
>> Ah yes, how could I forget!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 3:55 PM Mitch Wagner <mitch at mitchwagner.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Seems to me that Beyonce has the best advice here:
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m1EFMoRFvY
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Mitch Wagner <http://mitchwagner.com/about/>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 7:42 AM Joe Stanganelli via Ipg-smz <
>> ipg-smz at netpress.org> wrote:
>>
>> (IAAL, but this is NOT legal advice. This is “If I was in this situation,
>> here’s what I would do.” I am not your lawyer; you are not my client. I owe
>> you no duties and I am not to be trusted.)
>>
>> If the editor has merely said “stop writing for these other pubs” but
>> there is not an actual agreement to stop writing for these pubs, fuck ‘em.
>> Say nothing and write for whomever you want. You are still freelance.
>>
>> If they are asking you to agree to stop writing for other pubs, tell them
>> to go fuck themselves because that’s not how the world works.
>>
>> And, either way, I’d be seriously suspicious of doing any business with
>> these fuckwads moving forward.
>>
>> I am in a similar situation with a long-time client whose new-ish editor
>> has expressed the expectation that I tell him if I’m writing for other
>> security sites and that I’m not supposed to. I said nothing because I was
>> so stunned to hear such bullshit. And I write for whomever I want.
>>
>> tl;dr: Fuck these fucks.
>>
>>
>>
>> Joe
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* Ipg-smz <ipg-smz-bounces at netpress.org> on behalf of Liam Kelly
>> via Ipg-smz <ipg-smz at netpress.org>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 31, 2019 10:12:01 AM
>> *To:* ipg-smz at netpress.org <ipg-smz at netpress.org>
>> *Cc:* Liam Kelly <ljkelly1888 at gmail.com>
>> *Subject:* [Ipg-smz] New Job Question: Trial Period to Full Time Staffer
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>>
>> I've been speaking with a crypto/blockchain publication this week about
>> coming on board to help with their coverage. I will be paid on a per
>> article basis during a one month "trial period," after which, if all goes
>> well, I'll be offered a full-time position.
>>
>>
>>
>> Now, I also write copy for some crypto/blockchain companies at current.
>> One company is a startup in the space, whereas the other is a PR firm that
>> represents other crypto companies (among other subjects).
>>
>>
>>
>> The editor has stated that I need to stop writing for these companies
>> before beginning the trial period. I understand his reasoning (i.e.
>> conflict of interest), but it seems risky.
>>
>>
>>
>> What happens if I cut ties with a chunk of high paying work only to see
>> the full-time staff position get passed on to someone else? I should add
>> that the staff position will likely make up for the loss of marketing work
>> financially, and I have no problem dropping the latter once I've signed a
>> contract to work full-time for this publication.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is indeed tricky, and I thought members of the group would have some
>> good ideas/counter-proposals. What's a win-win for all parties in this
>> situation?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>>
>>
>> Liam
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>>
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>
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